|
About Linda Terry:
Port Orchard. Attended Ellensburg IWY. Member of the Church of the Latter Day Saints (volunteer work in teaching, administrative roles, music, programs to assist the needy, heavily involved in the Relief Society), homemaker, public school teacher. Political activist, beginning in 1970, in anti-abortion and anti-ERA campaigns. After IWY, campaigned for Referendum 40 to abolish funding for the Washington State Women's Commission, leader in local chapter of Women for Integrity in the Nation (WIN), and in Speakers' Bureau for Human Life. Anti-ERA
|
| Andrews |
As a beginning, Linda, would you tell me briefly about your growing up years? About your family, community, school? How you developed your ideas about your role as a woman in the home and in society?
|
| Terry |
I was born in 1944 in Spokane, Washington, in a basically Catholic city, or raised in a Catholic neighborhood, being the only Mormon family in my growing up neighborhood. But I was surrounded in that era, in the '40s and '50s with large families of good Catholics surrounding me. And I guess you could say it was the Ozzie and Harriet years, definitely. The mothers, in those cases, were home caring for their children. And men, in most cases, were the providers of their families. The world was a very secure place for me. My family was a secure place for me. And I thought the world was wonderful.
I felt loved and respected as a female, growing up. My father definitely valued my mother. And even though he was, in our culture, called the head of the family, she was the neck that turned the head. [laughs] So I grew up with this model of parents who loved each other, respected each other. Sure, there were differences. But they valued each other's role as being equal, but yet distinctly different. So that, I guess, was the roots of my beliefs or philosophies as to the role of women, and especially the importance of the family in community.
I had one friend in my growing up years whose parents were divorced. I didn't know of any other kids with divorced parents. Everyone I knew had the same last name as their mother and dad. Even in high school, I attended at that time the largest high school in the state of Washington -- at least that's what I was told. Shadle Park High School. I was one of very few Mormon kids in that high school, and yet I simply was not aware of, in my own little world in that society of the tragedy or heartbreak that could come to so many families through divorce and everything.
So to me, my goal in life was to grow up, get married. I hoped I could get an education. I wanted to go to university. But I hoped that I would not have to have a career because I felt strongly about -- my biggest goal in life was to marry right, and to raise good kids. I just felt intuitively that I needed to be there to do that. So I hoped I'd marry a man that could support me and however many kids that we would have together. And actually, that's what happened.
I graduated from Brigham Young University with a degree in elementary education and a composite in child development and family relations. Did teach school briefly, until my prince charming swept me off my feet at the age of twenty-four. And I quit teaching school as soon as the babies started coming along. I was able to live out my ideal of raising a good family, being a contributing member to society, and just living the good life.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Just a word about your family. Would you tell me a little bit about them?
|
| Terry |
Okay. Well, we have nine children. My husband and I have been married thirty-eight years, and they're all from the same marriage, the two of us. People would ask me, when we were married, "How many children do you want to have?"
And I would say, "I don't know." There was no, I felt a little uneasy about picking out some magical number that would be just perfect. We have a strong faith and belief in a heavenly father that has sent us here to Earth for a purpose and for a mission. And I felt that as a woman, the most influential thing I could do in the world would be to raise good kids. And I felt I needed to be here at home to do that.
So as the nine babies came along – I actually would have been blown away if I'd been told when we were first married that you were going to have nine children, because that just sounds crazy to me [laughs] – but as each one came along, they truly were indeed a blessing to us. And even at one point we had five teenagers at one time, maybe four teenagers at one time. Even in the craziness of all that, life was good. And our kids have just always been good kids.
In the Mormon Church, it is so devoted to strengthening families, a strong belief that families are the most critical unit in society, in the country, in the whole world. And that, so much of the time and energy of very, very good people in the LDS faith are devoted to strengthening families and helping parents reinforce their strong values, strong moral values. And that really worked well with our kids. There are just great Scoutmasters, and young women leaders, young men leaders, little children leaders, over the many years in our church that have been very, they've been an icon for our kids. They want to pattern their lives after them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
What is their age range?
|
| Terry |
The oldest, I remember when the last baby was born, I was age forty-five [laughs] when number nine popped into the scene. And I remember calling our oldest child at Brigham Young University. She was a sophomore that year. So there's a twenty, twenty-one age span. I had babies every other year, or there would be breaks where I lost, I lost several babies, too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
I understand that you've gone back to teaching now.
|
| Terry |
Yes. Right. Right. Both my husband and I were very committed to the idea that I not work outside of, that we don't leave our children in daycare. We were both very united in that. So he has his bachelor's degrees in electrical engineer. [laughs] He just retired a few months ago, but prior to that, for the last thirty-plus years, the twenty-fifth of the month was always payday. So the kids were just raised with that last week before the twenty-fifth, if they wanted to buy hot lunch, one day of the week, usually we'd pack their lunch, you can't do it, because payday's the twenty-fifth. But by being very frugal, most of the time we only had one car with the eleven of us.
Our kids, almost all of them have graduated from college or are in the process of graduating from college. Very few of them have, except for their higher degrees, their master's, they would take out loans then. But they didn't take out loans. They just worked. We would just work. The boys had paper routes. At one point, I had a paper route, too. I could be back before the kids needed to go to school. We were just frugal. The kids were raised on powdered milk. [laughs] I would buy it in fifty-pound bags. This is not instant. This is non-instant powdered milk. With all those kids, I could buy it very cheap. We'd always have a gallon of milk in the fridge for the kids. They just got used to the taste. The only time they felt they were deprived is when they'd go visit a friend overnight, or whatever. They'd drink a glass of real milk, and they'd go, "Man, this stuff is good!" But they were used to, we canned our own things, we'd grind our own wheat. The kids know how to can produce. We were just raised to watch every penny.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
What were your major affiliations and networks in the 1960s and '70s? And what roles did you play in them?
|
| Terry |
Well, my life revolved around my family and church. So my involvements were heavy in the women's organization of our church, or wherever I was asked to serve. So I was very, very busy, not just with raising children, but in helping run the church. My husband was bishop for a few years of our ward or congregation here, and then was called to serve in the stake presidency, which is overseeing the bishops in the wards. So he was out of the home a lot, in addition to being an electrical engineer during the day. But we were just always busy. I was Cub Scout den leader. I was teaching in the nursery, I was directing the choir, as were the other women that I was associating with.
My involvements in the community, I did get heavily involved with school issues, especially in the area of curriculum. Speaking as a parent then, not as a teacher, because I wasn't teaching school during those years of raising children. But I served on many curriculum committees in the school district, and became known as "Linda Terry, the conservative is speaking out once again, and writing a letter to the editor, once again." [laughs] But we were concerned, I was concerned in the '70s when we first moved here that sex education programs, they weren't balanced, or the content of them.
So I became very heavily involved in the curriculums in that. And a lot of front page headline newspaper stuff of school board, shall we say, kind of a mini International Women's Year at the school board, with both sides of the issues being very emotional, and speaking out for or against certain curriculums that the board would then be voting on. So, yeah. That would be one of my heavy involvements. Always loved it when it would be over, and I'd just say, "I don't ever want to do that again."
And then a few years later, I'd get a phone call, "You need to come down and look at this curriculum they're proposing to the school board."
And I'd go, "Oh, not again! Not again!" So it wasn't my favorite thing, but it was something I probably needed to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
And in 1977, at the time of the Ellensburg conference, was it pretty much the same?
|
| Terry |
As far as?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Your involvement in community organizations and church, as what you just described?
|
| Terry |
Yeah. Yeah. It's been consistent for the last forty years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Were there some specific events that spurred your thinking about changing roles of women at home and in society?
|
| Terry |
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I remember in my little protected, cushioned world, that my husband – I had already gotten my degree. But we were in Provo, Utah, Brigham Young University, and he was working on his degree. We had just had our first baby. And I remember listening to Arthur Godfrey radio program, where he was, this was in 1970, where he was really pushing the idea that overpopulation is a reality. That was just emerging then. So abortion was necessary, we'd have to legalize abortion. Overpopulation, the world was going to run out of room.
I just remember sitting in our tiny little college apartment, listening to that on the radio, and just getting so rattled, getting so shook up, getting so upset, that I wrote a letter to Arthur Godfrey, and I wrote a letter to the editor. I had these things stirring within me as the women's movement, the women's movement was just starting to take off, or at least my awareness of it. And the things that they were promoting so often upset me. Because I saw it as, I saw it through my eyes as disrupting the moral values of our country. I especially had very strong feelings against abortion.
So during the '70s, as I became more and more aware of many of the platforms that the radical feminists were promoting, I couldn't just sit there and listen to it. I had to release energy in some way, and it was often in letters to the editor, that was usually my means of doing that.
And then in the summer of 1970, we had a referendum here in Washington. We were just home for the summer from college. And that was a referendum or initiative to legalize abortion in Washington state. And I remember I had to get involved in that. And so I did, as much as I could, during those summer months.
Hmm. What else was going on, okay, we're leading up to '77, right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Yes. That was in '71, that the abortion law was passed.
|
| Terry |
Right. And then in '73 was the Roe v. Wade. So mostly it was letters to the editor. There was not an actual concrete organization that I could align myself with, or knew of to align myself. The ERA was gaining momentum then, and I became very concerned about that. I didn't know of a way that I could use my energy to oppose it, other than basically letters to the editor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
What were your concerns about the ERA?
|
| Terry |
Oh, very basically, as simple as that amendment was stated, I had done a lot of reading by conservative voices. I had a great deal of respect for Phyllis Schlafly, although I was not a part of Eagle Forum. We didn't have a local chapter or anything. I read extensively her concerns about the ERA, and everything rang true to me about if there was equality under the law, that means any law requiring an eighteen-year-old boy to be drafted, could not just require it to be males only. That it would, under the ERA, it would require women, eighteen-year-old women as well as men, to be drafted. Even the potential of gay marriages at that time in the '70s, -- it seemed almost outlandish to even consider that any legislature would allow that. even under the Equal Rights Amendment. If that was the law of our land, because the bride is a male instead of a female, the state could not deny that marriage license, because it's on the basis of gender.
So all the concerns about the ERA as far as those moral issues. Even abortion could have been, which it did, eventually, of course, become legal on a national basis. Even Social Security bugged me. It was like would I, as a stay-at-home mom, be required to feed into the Social Security system? There were just all kinds of possible scenarios that I felt were very frightening. And that in the blitz of approving the ERA in very quick fashion, I was convinced that these lawmakers had not considered all the potential outcomes of the ERA. It just sounded like a fair thing. So yep, let's vote for it. But no, I felt it was dangerous, very dangerous. And those issues needed to be addressed on their own merits, not one, sweeping, what is it, 38-word amendment that would then address all those issues when it might, then, end up legalizing things that lawmakers and the citizens had no intention of legalizing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
How did you become interested and involved in the Ellensburg conference?
|
| Terry |
I remember going to the meeting about a week before the conference as a Mormon woman in the community. The church in Salt Lake City had notified the stake presidents that these conferences were going, and encouraged the conservative voice to be heard there. There was a concern that there would not be a conservative voice of any number, and they encouraged us to go. So I attended a meeting, and I do believe a portion of the Diane Edmundson tape from Oklahoma was played. The building was full. Women came at a moment's notice; there were, oh, easily, probably 200 of us, just from the Port Orchard, Bremerton area. At that time, we're talking about '77, we only had one congregation of Mormon Church here at Port Orchard, and one congregation at Bremerton, and yet, we're pretty protective of our families. And we felt that we needed to voice our– okay, back to this meeting.
I remember that they informed us of the meeting, the purpose of it, informed us of the conference, and what its purpose was. That there was a concern that there was not going to be a balance, and they were encouraging conservative women to go. They played a segment of that tape. But also, I remember my sister-in-law speaking right at the end of the meeting. She was just visiting here, and she had just been at the Utah, Salt Lake City one. So she described what it was like, and the emotion of it, and the importance of the conservative voice being heard. So, yeah, we were ready to roll. We were ready to go after hearing that.
And then we broke up into small groups, decided who could go, who couldn't. And who would take care of whose kids, and who would drive, and where would we stay when we got there. We have a very tight, communicative network in the church, and it's that way worldwide. Not for things like this– this was the first time we'd ever been mobilized, and the only time we had ever been mobilized, with something of this nature. Normally the church stays completely out of politics, and we are just taught correct principles, and left to govern ourselves. I mean, I can't even, when I'm campaigning for a certain political candidate, I don't even take brochures to my church meeting. We don't do any politicking in church. We teach correct principles, and then we are left to our own to find out those men and women who best represent our points of view who are running for office. I'm not even allowed to use my church roster to call people to come to my home to meet a candidate. The church has to stay totally neutral, except they do make statements on moral issues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
So what role did the church play in galvanizing the activism?
|
| Terry |
Simply informing us. Simply informing us through the channels of leadership in the church. But once we got the word, I remember the next day or so, we Port Orchard women met at our building and we just started the organizing part of that ourselves. "Okay, who's going to drive? Who can watch kids?" And just, "Who knows who we can stay with once we get into Ellensburg?" And, "Who knows what we're supposed to do when we get there?" [laughs]
I know that, I remember our priesthood leaders, our bishop or stake president spoke to us, reminding us of being fair, being respectful, being polite, which is the way Mormons are always supposed to live, anyway. But people like me, who get so rattled– [laughs] when I feel that the foundation of the family, especially, is being attacked. We were instructed to go there to participate in a respectful way. But, you know– let's see, I forget what your question was. [laughs]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
You had commented, on the church not being political, and not having political involvement, and I asked what role the church played in this. And I think you answered my question.
|
| Terry |
The role they played was to inform us, and then they let us take care of ourselves. Then we took care of ourselves. Women are good at that. [laughs]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Tell me something about how you got to Ellensburg, about the logistics of getting there, and what it was like when you got there.
|
| Terry |
I'm sorry, but that was thirty years ago. I don't even remember who I drove with. I just know we took individual cars and carpooled. I don't even remember where I stayed. My only memory is of a whole bunch of us from Port Orchard packing into a foyer somewhere, or somebody's family room in someone's home, at the end of a day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
In Ellensburg?
|
| Terry |
Yes. In Ellensburg. Kind of getting instructions on where we could stay. And I'm sure other women can remember. Maybe other members of the church in Ellensburg opened their homes to us. I don't know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
That's okay. I'm just trying to get a feel for the atmosphere.
|
| Terry |
Well, the atmosphere was tense. It was tense. I remember a lot of very serious faces. It must have been the night before the workshops started. I just remember us getting very tense. And we wanted to do what we could to let our voice be heard. But for so many women, this was a whole new arena, a whole new– I had never been around, I remember, I was rereading my journal this morning before you came, of what I had written. And I remember saying, or I had written this was my first time to actually be face to face with some, especially a radical feminist, you know? Someone who espoused so many things that were contrary to the very core and heart of my being. If I could have relaxed more about it and said, "Hey, we're all women. And we all want happiness out of life. We all want fulfillment. We all know what it's like to be loved, and to love. And let's talk together here about what we can do to make society better for women."
But I went there with the attitude of, the enemy is there and they're trying to take over! Oh, gee, how do I do this? How can I contribute in a positive way, for my voice to be heard? So that was definitely touchy.
Oh, and one thing that we did, it was suggested so that we could identify ourselves, that we all wear dresses. I don't know how many other LDS groups did that. Maybe that was the whole, all of us, I don't know. See, in the '70s, dresses still were a symbol of womanhood. And wearing a pantsuit was kind of an icon for the feminist. I mean, I went to school every day of my life with a dress on; I never knew what it was like to wear pants. So that, in the '70s, evolved and changed as the feminist movement took a stronger hold in society. And so maybe that's interesting that we decided to wear dresses instead of a certain colored ribbon, or whatever, that we could identify ourselves from the other point of view. So we were very definitely, obviously spotted. We could tell who was on what side of the issues by our attire.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Did you wear blue and white ribbons?
|
| Terry |
I have no memory of that. We may have. But who needed them, when you had a dress on?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
So, did you encounter any direct confrontations when you got there?
|
| Terry |
My strongest memories are sitting in the workshops, listening to the panels speak, and just going, argh! Maybe one of them will say something that I agree with. [laughs] But each time, each workshop I went into, I don't ever recall having that experience of being able to say, okay, that woman, I agree with her, yes. I just felt like, they've stacked the deck!
And so I remember in one workshop, and I cannot remember which one it was. I remember when it was time for input from the audience, after this panelist had spoken. I had been sitting there after the panelists were speaking, and taking notes like crazy of how I wanted to respond. And even though I might get really riled about things, I do, normally, in a public speaking situation, I'm able to speak respectfully. And I felt I could do that each time. But I remember the looks on the panelists' faces as I spoke, it was almost as if they were rolling their eyes. And as I look back on it, here we all came, two thousand strong, they weren't expecting us. Who knows what they'd been told, probably, "The Mormons are here to take over this conference and destroy all the hard work you've done." That may have been what they were dealing with, the prejudice that they were dealing with. But I didn't ever feel there was any understanding on their part each time I would speak out, or other conservative women speak out. It was more of a polite, "let them have their say but let's get this over with" type of attitude.
But okay, just one confrontation, it wasn't even that, one memory I have. I was standing in line, a very long line, to use the bathroom. [laughs] There were a lot of long lines in the women's restroom. And so, and we were mixed up in the women's as far as blue and white coalition versus friends of ERA, or whatever they were called, I forget. But I was standing in front of a woman who was speaking to the woman in front of her about these Mormon women that had invaded. And speaking rather disrespectfully about, well, she was frustrated that we were there in large numbers. And as we continued to stand in line next to each other, I don't remember how it came up, but she said something about, she started questioning me, recognizing in my dress what positions I basically had. And she said something about, "Don't you realize that there are single women in this world who are poor and who are struggling, and who need opportunities in the workforce?" She was trying to present all her concerns. And she said something about, "You people in your church probably don't care at all about poor women, because you're all married to men who make money."
And I remember telling her, I want you to know that the first Sunday of every month, not just me, but worldwide, every faithful Mormon fasts for twenty-four hours. No food, no water for twenty-four hours. And it's a spiritual thing. It's something that we do once a month to try to draw closer to the lord. But it's a material thing, too, because in our refraining from food, we take that money that we would have spent on food for ourselves and our family, and we usually times it by three or four or five or six, and we give it to the poor, so that they can have food on their tables. And many of those poor in our community are the single women. We want them fed.
But I remember, just as I shared that with her, that this was an ongoing practice. I'd been raised with it, and I'd raised my children with it, and I live it to give to the poor and needy, I could see her visibly softening. And I felt like by the time it was our turn to get into the restroom, we had indeed had a common ground, and that we were communicating with each other in a very positive way. But no head on, nothing of those kinds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
But just, some bridging the gap?
|
| Terry |
Yeah.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
What were the issues that were of major concern to you? I think you've already touched on that. Is there anything else that was of major concern?
|
| Terry |
I know I didn't go, I don't even think I went into the ERA one. I was very concerned about, I was very hopeful that Washington state would rescind their vote on the ERA. But I didn't go because just the logistics of some of those issues being so crowded that I kind of went to other ones. But as far as my actual concerns, I was concerned about lesbian lifestyle, reproductive decisions that I had some very great concerns about contraceptives being handed out to kids, instead of teaching abstinence and self-control, which worked fine for me. [laughs] I was twenty-four before I was married. I knew what it was like to date a guy and feel physical attraction. But I knew that a person could practice self-control, and that there would be so many benefits from that, physically, emotionally, spiritually. So the idea of giving contraceptives out to teenagers, to make abortion less, that just turned my stomach. It just turned my stomach. So I cared a lot about that.
Federally funded daycare, I had some real concerns about that. I had concerns about women who didn't have to work being encouraged to go out into the workplace, leaving little children. That always bothered me. When I had my paper route, those years I had my paper route, I'd be up at the crack of dawn out there delivering papers. And I'd see moms driving their kids, their babies, at six in the morning, dropping them off at somebody's house for daycare. And it just always hurt to see that. I thought oh, they're only babies for such a little while. If you don't have to work, stay with them, raise them yourself. You can be out doing your thing in no time at all. But if you have a baby, you're the only mom they've got. These are things that I just felt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
How did the conference influence your perceptions of women's role in the home and society?
|
| Terry |
Well, it greatly influenced my perception to realize that other women could feel so different about the home and the family, as far as their role. I included my Ellensburg experience in my life story. And I like to give subtitles to each of my little chapters in my life story. And the subtitle I put for my Ellensburg experience in my life story, was "Being Blown Out of the Water." Meaning, it was such an eye opener to me to be in the presence of women who were so adamant and so devoted to their agenda that, it was just a new experience for me. Because even though I live in the world, you tend to surround yourself with people who feel as you do. So, yeah, it blew me away to hear these women, many of them so articulate, and so well versed, and so devoted. But in my heart, I felt that they were so wrong. So, it did. It just had a major emotional impact on me.
You'll probably ask me this question later, but I could not get it out of my mind when I came home. I just replayed over and over in my mind, whether I would be changing a diaper, or vacuuming a floor. [laughs] For weeks, weeks after Ellensburg, I just kept rerunning things through my mind. The memories have dissipated with the passage of thirty years. But at the time, I would remember things they would say, and I'd just give a fiery speech to rebuttal what they'd say, as I'm vacuuming my floor. Yeah!
And I remember going to church the next week, and talking to other women who had gone. I'd say, "How are you doing?"
And they'd go, "Oh, fine."
It was like, "What?! How can you be fine?! Aren't you rattled? Aren't you just–"
"Well, no. I mean, it was an interesting experience, but back to the real world now."
"How can you just let it lie there?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
And you felt like the real world had changed.
|
| Terry |
Yes! How can you move on? I thought, there's got to be somebody else that feels like I do. And I did, with things that happened over the next several months, and I did find others who were not willing to let it rest, either, who were able to expend our energy for good old Referendum 40.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Do you want to talk about about Referendum 40 [ed. to abolish the Washington State Women's Commission]?
|
| Terry |
Sure. To me, it was just, it was so wonderful. Not that I wanted opportunities to have to leave my family. I did, in a sense, want to get back to a normal life taking care of my responsibilities at home and at church. My first memory, and I don't know if this is how it came, but I received a phone call to be invited to go visit Governor Dixy Lee Ray, and talk to her. There were nine of us, as I recall, that were invited to come. And she had agreed to give us an audience after the Ellensburg experience. And by the way, the plenary, when we defeated the ERA and the voting on that, and it came out in the headlines the next day, "ERA Defeated," or at least, endorsing it was defeated at the women's conference, Governor Dixy Lee Ray could not understand how women could be opposed to the ERA. And we wanted a chance to express to her our point of view, and what our concerns were.
So I and eight others met with her for, it was to be a thirty-minute interview. And it ended up being extremely frustrating. I remember her walking in, we were all sitting around this long table, and she came walking in and sat down. And there were no niceties; there were no introductions. It was just, the first thing that I recall coming out of her mouth was, "How can intelligent women be opposed to the ERA?"
So one of us was spokesman, but we all kind of gave our input to try to express our concerns. And she basically was rather abrupt with us, wasn't too interested in listening, and spent the rest of the time telling us why we were wrong. [laughs] And that was the end of the appointment. And I don't remember if the Referendum 40, had at that point – if the petitions had already gone out, people started to sign them. But we organized women. We were out there on street corners and in front of grocery stores. And for many of us, it was our first experience of the petition gathering process. Boy, I'll tell you, we got the signatures. Even though so many of the women were able to come back from Ellensburg and move on with their lives, they had experienced enough there. When this opportunity came up to get rid of the women's commission, which, we felt, was basically a lobbying group for the feminist agenda at the taxpayers' expense, women were very ready to go out with their clipboards and get the signatures, which we did.
My life then, once we did get the required signatures and it was eligible to be on the ballot, then my life was just speaking engagements. I was on the phone calling anyone, any group, anything, to try to get out there and speak to the necessity of Referendum 40. Let's see, how was the phrasing on that? Was it, "Vote No on Referendum 40?" I think that's what it was, "Vote No on Referendum 40." It was to continue the funding for the women's commission to continue. And we said no.
So I remember speaking at our Port Orchard Rotary. I had asked them if I could just have five minutes. They had a keynote speaker planned that day. They said, "Sure, yeah." So I stood up and I expressed our concerns about the ERA and the women's commission, and I did it, basically, in five minutes. And I encouraged them to vote no on the referendum, sat down. This is tiny little Port Orchard, you know.
Anyway, the keynote speaker stood up, and his topic was something nonpolitical. But I remember him saying– oh, and he was a minister, too! He was a minister. He was wearing his white collar thing. He said, "Before I begin my prepared remarks, I need to say one thing about what this woman has just told you." He says, "You need to know that she is involved with one of the most bigoted, biased, hypocritical organizations." I guess he was referring to my church! [laughs] I'm not sure what he was referring to. "And I would encourage you to next Rotary meeting, get the other side of this issue here to speak. And he was very outspoken, and somewhat rude. And I just remember not being used to such attacks. I just sat there smiling and grinning, and trying to keep my composure.
And anyway, after the meeting was over, I wasn't prepared for what was going to happen. But as soon as it was over, I was surrounded by – it was mostly all men back in those days in Rotary – I was surrounded by men who said to me, "Good going. Don't you pay any attention to what that guy says. We're on your side."
Then the president of the Chamber of Commerce came up to me and said, "I apologize for his rudeness to you." He says, "I want you to call my secretary and have her squeeze you in the docket for our next Chamber of Commerce meeting." Anyway, that was kind of a traumatic little thing. But for the most part, when I would speak, people were respectful. Except for the few times that I ended up speaking at a group, like a community group, where the only people that showed up were just a handful, two or three, radical feminists. [laughs] So yeah, there were some interesting exchanges. Anyway, I was learning a lot for a gal that would just would prefer to be home and raise her kids. I was getting a lot of experiences out there in the realm of politics.
Oh, just one last thing on Referendum 40, though. As the November election day came, and we'd read things in the newspaper; for the most part, the press, as usual, was supporting, they were endorsing the opposing side. And I truly felt like we were a bunch of little Davids up against a big, huge Goliath. And I didn't have a lot of hope that we would win in that election. And mostly, I guess I let the media influence my attitude, that we were fighting a hopeless cause, that the feminist agenda was on such a role, and that this commission was a part of it. That we weren't going to have much luck.
And I was absolutely shocked the night the election returns came in, that we had won by a landslide. I think, 75 percent, 79 percent, somewhere around there, voting on our side. I could not believe it. And I had a renewed trust in the sensibility of the American public voting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Let's backtrack a little bit to before Referendum 40. We kind of took a leap to that, but you brought it up, and it's a fabulous story. What were some of the other positive and negative outcomes of the conference, in your opinion? It seems to have galvanized your Referendum 40 campaign.
|
| Terry |
What were some of the negative outcomes? The only negative outcome I can think about was I was so mad about the slate, the delegates that went to Houston! I could not figure that out. And to this day, I do not trust the integrity of that count. And I'm sorry, but it just simply did not make sense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Were you at all involved in the lawsuit against–
|
| Terry |
No. Although Lynn Dyer was, and Lynn Dyer and I were friends. In fact, I helped her husband campaign for state senator.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Was she involved in the lawsuit?
|
| Terry |
Well, according to this, she was. So, very sharp gal. Very articulate gal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
The lawsuit, for the record, was against the election process, election of delegates. Some people felt that the count hadn't been fair.
|
| Terry |
Let's see. So, negative, the whole Houston thing, I could barely stand to read about it too much. I just– but I did. I did read about it, and I did watch it, what I could. It just tore at me, it's just like oh, why did [President] Carter even do this? Or whoever said that we should have these conferences. Where's our voice? Where's our voice? It's simply a platform for the radical feminists. Doggone it! Let's get this over with and hope the dust settles, and we can move on. So that was hard for me to follow the Houston thing. But positive, yeah. Positive in that I felt that it did help women who had not been involved in the political process before, help them get experience in that. And it's so critical. It's so critical that people be involved in the political process, and not just label all politicians as crooked, and "I'm not going to have anything to do with it." That's such a destructive attitude, and I do feel it helped a lot of women realize that they need, they have a responsibility to lend their voice to policy making.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
In your opinion, in addition to getting women involved in the political process, women that haven't been involved before, were there other significant outcomes of Ellensburg and Houston?
|
| Terry |
Well, I think the biggest one was the organizing of WIN, Women for Integrity in the Nation, where we actually organized a structure outside of our church structure, but where we could meet in our homes. And just like the local chapter of NOW, we were the local chapter of WIN. And that didn't–It did eventually fold. But it did, for the time being, help women feel the importance of staying on top of issues, and helping them become educated and aware, what issues were going on with lawmakers, and what we could do to express our goals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Are there other follow-up activities that you've participated in, in both the short and long term?
|
| Terry |
Well, I've always been involved in politics in some way, over the years. What I described to you as what I was experiencing in the '70s, I still write letters to the editor, I still try to be involved, I still try to stay current, I still try to put my money where my mouth is as far as supporting candidates for office that reflect my views, especially views as far as defending the family, and making laws that will help support, help the families and the traditional family. That's just been a thing I just always do, I always do.
Just most recently, I was very involved in the campaign of a local man running for senator, just in this last election, November. Had my kids out there, pounding the stakes into the ground to put up signs all over, just whatever we can do to help get good people elected that reflect our views. Send out emails, oh, thank goodness for emails now! They're so much easier than phone calls. [laughs] Flooding everybody in my email list, trying to educate them as far as who is for this issue, and who is against this issue. It's not unusual for me to get phone calls the day before an election from some people, somebody saying, "I know you've studied these issues more than I have. Who would you recommend?" So that's just been part of my life, and making sure I'm educated in supporting candidates, and helping candidates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
And did most of that start with the Ellensburg conference? Or was that a pattern before?
|
| Terry |
I don't recall doing that before Ellensburg, except for the abortion right participation in the 1970, the summer of 1970, with the abortion law, the successful attempt to legalize abortion in Washington state. I didn't do it, I have no memory, anyway of being as involved as I was after Ellensburg.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Were you involved in the White House Conference on Families in 1980?
|
| Terry |
I was not, but I did follow it, and I did read, especially people who went there as delegates representing the conservative voice. I was very interested in following that, but I did not participate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
From your perspective, how have women's lives changed since the conferences? And in what ways have they stayed the same?
|
| Terry |
Women's lives have changed, it would probably be easier for me to answer that by saying society has changed tremendously since the late '70s, since Ellensburg, in that those issues, so many of the issues, especially the moral issues, what I call the moral issues, in Ellensburg, it was the radical feminists, in my perspective, that were pushing that agenda. Now it's just so much a part of society now. It's so accepted. We're so used to it. Much of their agenda has been embraced by much of society now. As far as the moral issues, abortion is a fact of life. It's still debated, but it's a fact of life in our society. Gay rights, it's obvious, during Ellensburg, gay marriage was very unsettling. The idea of that was very unsettling to a majority of society. Now it's a very out front issue.
Even just TV, I don't even know how to turn our TV on. [laughs] It takes a rocket scientist to figure it out, with the VCR and DVD. I can't do it without one of my kids here. But on the rare occasion that I do turn it on, I can't keep it on for more than a few minutes, because of how women and families are portrayed now, just in mainstream. You know, they can joke about Ozzie and Harriet, but now mainstream families on TV are rare. I would say that a family is portrayed as a loving husband and wife who value their vows, and that they teach their kids the same thing. And that sexual relations are to be reserved for only within the marriage covenant. Actually, they laugh at that. I know, even at school now, the teachers, half of them are not married, but living with someone. I'm sorry, I'm making an unfair sweeping generalization to say half of them, but it is so accepted, it is so embraced, that this is just life now, that I am considered archaic.
I found myself in a really strange situation the other day at school with a teacher who's announced her engagement to a man that she's been living with for several years. And it's going to be another few years before they get married, but she's now officially engaged. Six of our nine children are married and have started their families. And the other three are either working on it, or too young to be working on it. But their engagements were like five or six months, because they embraced the idea that sexual relations are for marriage. It was very important for them to keep that, and to not violate that moral code. So it's not smart to be engaged for three years, if you want to remain a virgin. It just doesn't make sense.
So anyway, I ended up, she questioned me something about that, and I found I was floundering, trying to explain to her that my husband and I, and my kids, saved sex for marriage, and didn't move in with each other before the wedding day. That the honeymoon was truly a real honeymoon, in every aspect. And I found that I was floundering, and was somewhat embarrassed in explaining this to her. I surely didn't want to come across as sounding like I was judging her for the lifestyle that she at this time was living. But, anyway, so different than the way it used to be. Society at large used to embrace that very concept. Not so anymore.
Now, let's see. What does that have to do with what you asked me? I don't know. [laughs]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
I just asked how women's lives have changed since the conferences, or how they've stayed the same. Do you see some ways that they've stayed the same?
|
| Terry |
Well, they've stayed the same in that, like I said, women basically still want the same thing: to have strong families, to be loved, to be good women, to be good mothers, to be contributing in a positive way to society, to raise good kids that will contribute to society in a positive way. That's the same. And I think the thing that's so different is that so many women don't believe that that's within their grasp or their reach. Even as a teacher, I see that. Such fractured families. Such hurt kids.
The first day of school of every trimester, I have my students write a one-page story of their life. And some get very personal in what they share. It breaks my heart to read what some of these, the environment some of these kids are living in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
What age level are you talking about?
|
| Terry |
Anywhere, sophomores, juniors, seniors in high school. Kids that are the parents to their parents, because their folks, or they're just living with their mom, and she's addicted to crack. And a restraining order for dad. And all the messes that are out there as a result of strong families being destroyed. Loving parents. People marry now because, sometimes because she's pregnant, so he has to. I mean, sure, we had that before. But not like it is now. Kids being raised by their grandparents.
I had to fight off the tears the other day. A conference that I had with a student who was having severe problems at school. All of his teachers were sitting there in a room, including me, and there he was, belligerent, disrespectful. And it wasn't his mother that sat there or his father that sat there in this parent/teacher conference. It was his grandmother who was raising him. And she was so old, and so frail, and so weather worn. And here this fragile old woman was trying to raise her daughter's son or grandson. And she was so concerned about him. You could tell that she was giving it all that she had. Her life was spent; she didn't have that much left in her.
And I just thought of all the other women who are grandmothers now, who've raised their own children, but now, because of the destructive lifestyle choices their children have made, they're raising their children's children. But life really, for many women, is not what it used to be. I believe truly that it's the destruction in the family that's caused all of this heartache and difficulty for so many women. I wish everybody could have a happy marriage like mine, with good kids like mine. And I know that's not realistic. But it used to be far more common than it is now. And in this respect, women's lives have changed dramatically.
I got an email from a mom the other day of one of my students, wanting to know how her daughter was doing in class. And this is college prep sophomores, these are kids that are on the ball, and motivated. But she never does her homework. She hadn't turned in her last nine assignments. And her mother emailed me back, "What am I to do with this girl?!" And I thought in my heart, you could be there for her when she gets home from school, instead of off at your career. You know, this is a husband and a wife family where her husband is working. She needs an adult when she gets home from school. You can't leave her from two o'clock to six PM, expecting her to make the right choices. She's not making them. And her schoolwork is the first thing that goes down. These kids need their moms. They need them there. I could go on forever.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
I'd like to have you say a few words about the abortion debate. I know that was your first activism. Is that something that you're still involved in, in that debate?
|
| Terry |
Not as much. At the time, shortly after the International Women's Year, I became involved in the Speakers' Bureau for Human Life, and I would just be on the phone, making appointments to go out and speak. And especially to give, my goal was two things: to educate people as to the reality of life in the womb. The idea that it's just a mass of fetal tissue, and that it's just like having your tonsils removed, I felt that was a lie that was being sold to the public. So my goal was to do two things: to educate them to the viability of life in the womb, and my presentation was, I used Life magazine pictures showing when the heart first starts to beat, and brainwaves, and just the whole scenario of things describing how much that baby in the womb, even the first three months, that after the first three months, all the baby has to do is get bigger and stronger, but everything is there. I spoke a lot, especially to school groups, to try to educate them, and then to give them alternatives to abortions. If the girl does have an unwanted pregnancy, how many parents are out there, hopeful parents are out there, who are not able to have children, and to let them know of the alternatives.
Anyway, I spoke, I spent a lot of energy and time doing that, and assisting on the speakers' bureau. But as more and more of my own babies came along, I eventually just sort of, I contribute to Human Life now financially, but I don't do that as much. I still care as much, but I'm not as actively–
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Let's see. We've touched on almost everything that I have. You've talked about several issues during the Ellensburg conference that concerned you, and still do. How do you feel that some of these issues are being resolved, or are they still being debated? Is there anything more to say about that that we haven't already touched on?
|
| Terry |
I think the issues at Ellensburg are just as much a part of our debate in society today as it was then, other than the fact that they are more embraced by more people now. But you know, there's still all, I guess probably without going piece by piece, each issue, to address them separately, I could just make a sweeping generalization and say I still feel that they are issues that are out there, but there's definitely been progress in a lot of areas to help women. Yeah.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Could you elaborate on that a little?
|
| Terry |
Well, for example, women, single women, poor women, educational programs for them, how to help get them into the workforce. Even within our own church, my responsibility in the church right now is I'm president of the women's organization of about two hundred women just in our own congregation. One of our–
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Is this the Relief Society?
|
| Terry |
Yes, the Relief Society president. And it's many faceted. I deal with many facets of helping women. And one of them is to help them get an education. We have a literacy program. And just the poor woman who needs to get educated, and get to where she can be out there, a divorced woman, to support her family. We do a great deal to help, give them the funds through our church to get an education so that they can support their family. And in the meantime, then, help them with food and sustenance, just things to survive for them and their children. That's a large part of it. And so I do have some contact with also the community outlets that are there outside of our church to help women in these areas. Legal help. I have one particular woman that I have taken her several times to legal help in Bremerton, to get her represented in a potential divorce situation.
Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot, it seems to me that there's a lot more out there now in the community to assist women than maybe previously. Although I guess I can't accurately make the comparison, because I'm a Relief Society president now these last few years, I'm more involved in that, and in seeking that out, than I was before I had this position in the church. It seems to me that there's been far more progress to help women who are in dire straits, and who need help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
In summary, is there anything else that you would like to add to this, or talk about?
|
| Terry |
Probably I'll think of it after you walk out the door.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
I see that you have notes there.
|
| Terry |
I think we have probably covered it. This may even be somewhat irrelevant, but it's probably the part of me that likes to get in the last word. [laughs] Which you've let me have all the words, actually, and I appreciate that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Oh, I appreciate all your candor. This has been great.
|
| Terry |
Oh, good. I'm glad you feel this way. There is a quote, this, I guess, is my closing remarks as to in spite of the contention that was obviously there in Ellensburg, and the opposing viewpoints, I think I'd like to end with a quote to defend my side of the issue. [laughs] I heard this, it was actually by one of our church leaders years ago. And when I heard it, it just went into my heart and soul, to the very core of it. I loved it so much, how he articulated it.
Neal Maxwell. He's one of the twelve apostles for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He spoke to the issues of that. He gave this at the time that the ERA was building momentum, and that the church was under fire for officially opposing the Equal Rights Amendment. Therefore fueling, or giving fuel to that concept that the Mormon Church keeps its women under control by archaic patriarchal society, and that we can't think for ourselves. All we do is be robots for these dominant males that run our lives. That is a concept they were surely talking about in Ellensburg.
But anyway, he said, "The act of deserting home in order to shape society is like thoughtlessly removing crucial fingers from an imperiled dike in order to teach people to swim." And then he ended it with this: "When the real history of mankind is fully disclosed, will not what happened in cradles and kitchens prove to be more controlling than what happened in Congresses?"
I believed that so much, and I was so grateful that this man articulated what has been my driving force all these years as I have been involved in these things pertaining to women's issues that I took this last part of the quote, and I wrote it in, I found someone, this is before the days of computers, I found someone who could write calligraphy. I had her make several copies of it, then I modge podged it on this wooden plaque, and I gave it to my sister and sisters-in-law for Christmas, the year after he said that. And this was the part: "When the real history of mankind is fully disclosed, will what happened in cradles and kitchens prove to be more controlling than what happened in Congresses?"
I hurt, and every time I hear people say, "Oh, you're just a homemaker?" In their minds, I guess, I was just wasting my college education. I wasn't out there doing something that could really have some control. But truly, I believe this statement that the energy and time, and blood, sweat and tears I put into my home, in making the best it could possibly be, providing an environment where my children could feel loved and safe and sheltered, and where I could teach them. And yes, that meant I had to be here in order to do that. I could never have done that while I was teaching English at the high school. [laughs] I could not. There was not enough of me to go around, to do that. To even infer that what I've done here for my career choice, and that is to raise good kids and have a good family and be a good wife, that that is going to have less influence in the world than what I could have done had I even been a congressman. I don't believe that.
There were days in those many pregnancies that I would just lie on the sofa and kind of conduct traffic as the little ones would run around me. [laughs] And all I wanted to do was just get through this day with nausea and those things that sometimes hit you when you're pregnant. And I would say to myself as I would lie on the sofa, "Not even the president of the United States today, on his agenda, has anything more important, more far reaching, than I have on my agenda. And that is to grow this baby. That will have a far greater impact for good on this world than anything that president of the United States is doing today." And I would tell myself that, and that would get me through. And I believed it with all my heart.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Linda, thank you so much. I appreciate the ending. It just encapsulates so much of what you've been saying for the time that we've been privileged to talk.
|
| Terry |
Well, thank you. I hesitated whether or not to do that, but I just had to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
I'm glad you did. So we will end with that. And again, I deeply appreciate this.
[Pause] We're resuming the interview. After I turned off the recorder, I told Linda that some of the feminists, whom I've interviewed, thought that Mormon men came to Ellensburg to tell women how to vote. We're resuming the interview, so that Linda Linda can tell me who the men were and why they were there.
|
| Terry |
I don't know what the pattern was with other stakes (a stake consists of about ten congregations, or ten wards), but in our stake, our stake president had asked that men accompany us to Ellensburg. I can't remember what the ratio was, one to every ten women, or one to every twenty, something like that. Their concern was that, actually they didn't know what to expect at this conference, but the potential of perhaps some of our women being in harm's way, they were concerned for that. And that there be a presence of men there just to make sure that we were okay.
In fact, that's a very common practice in our church. I'm the president of a women's organization, the Relief Society, at our church. And if we have a presidency meeting with me and our two councilors and my secretary, we have been asked not to meet in the building alone, like during a weekday, when no one else is in the building, without a man being in the building somewhere, just for safety reasons. In fact, it was not too many years ago that two women were alone in a ward building someplace here in western Washington. They were librarians at the church alone, and an intruder did come in and ended up raping one of the women. And it was a very sad situation. So once again, once that story came out in the press, the local bishops and state president reinforced the idea that we not be alone in our buildings, that women in small groups not be alone.
Anyway, so it's very natural for us to have, especially in this setting, where we were going off to a potentially explosive situation, they just wanted to be sure that there were a handful of men there to help if help was needed. Kind of on a lighter note, once we were engaged in the conference and stories were circulating in both camps as to who we Mormon women were, and why we were there, we began hearing stories about how we were being orchestrated and mandated [by men], which absolutely seemed so humorous to us, because Mormon women are known, ever since they marched across the plains, back in the 1840s, to be very determined, and very strong willed in many cases. So it was rather humorous for us to think that we had men there to dictate to us what we should be saying and thinking, where as in most of our homes, we try hard to let our husband get in a word edgewise. So we're not used to this idea that we're being led by the nose by our men. But anyway–
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Were people saying that to you at the conference?
|
| Terry |
We were hearing the stories. No woman came up to me and said, "You Mormon women." But we as Mormon women were hearing that that's what others were saying about us. And so I remember one day we were taking a lunch break on the campus there in Ellensburg, and the man over our little group of ten or twenty that was eating lunch with us, and he said, and this is thirty years ago, but I still remember the dialogue, he says, "I'd like to tell you ladies," speaking to us Mormon gals, "I'd like to tell you ladies what I did to try to stop this ugly rumor that I'm here to dictate to you what to do." He says, "I went up to the opposing, some women who were obviously in the opposing camp, and I said to them, 'I think that your idea that these Mormons are nothing but a bunch of robots, only listening, do what the men are dictating them to say and do, is nothing but a bunch of, is nothing but a bunch of, is nothing but a bunch of…'" And anyway, he was playing the role of a robot who got his message stuck, and the record was stuck. [laughter] Anyway, I just remember laughing and laughing over that.
Because it was sad to think that they thought that we were not capable of thinking for ourselves, or intelligent enough to think for ourselves, that we were oppressed. That just saddens me so much, because as a lifelong Mormon woman, I probably enjoy more freedom, more opportunities, than most other women, because of my religion. I am respected. I am listened to. I am given so many opportunities to lead and to learn. My administrative skills are all that they are because of my church involvement. I love, I love being a Mormon woman in relationship to Mormon men. And it saddens me when something that is so dear to me is not understood, and even condemned. I wish the truth was understood.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Well, you've told the truth right here and now for the record. And I'm so glad you explained that, because it's something that many people are confused about. What were the men doing there? And you've explained it.
|
| Terry |
Okay. Okay. Well, it makes sense now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
And you're right that some of the Mormon stakes did not have men, their delegations did not have men coming with them.
|
| Terry |
Well, in retrospect, it probably would have been wiser to not have them from our stake. I mean, heavens, we had no idea. I'm sure that our leaders would have had no idea that that's how it would have been misconstrued.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Andrews |
Well, this explains, for the record. Thank you so much for adding that.
|
|
|
|
|
[End Interview.]
|
|
|